Refuting Jordan Peterson

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#1
First i am going to cover advice that is clearly harmful among his 12 rules for life.
4: Compare yourself with who you were yesterday, not with who someone else is today
Actually looking at how other people and trying to reach their success can be beneficial., ask what they are doing that makes them more successful.
5: Do not let your children do anything that makes you dislike them
extreme totalitarianism towards your children
6: Set your house in perfect order before you criticise the world
From someone who got sent to a rehab and optained brain damage from abusing bensos. He himself clearly doesn't have his house in order, actually following this advice is actually harmful for your mental health[/B]

https://www.reddit.com/r/enoughpetersonspam/comments/fbj9s9
There are plenty of things wrong with our current society and you ignoring these things is not a good idea since it increases the probability of you yourself being harmed by the system. If you dont fix societal issues they tend to get increasingly worse until it's no longer possible to excape the problem and by then it will be too late.

8: Tell the truth – or, at least, don’t lie
This is really bad advice, we live in a society where you need to shut up and in some cases even lie for self preservation. Lyingr too much can be counter productive since people may stop trusting you but there are plenty of people (such as Donald Trump) who lies constantly and get away with it. Since people are delusional about a lot of things they will think you are lying when you are being honest and the other way around.

Talking openly about any of the following is dangerous
  1. you being attracted to young people (especially pedophilic attraction).
  2. you hearing voices
  3. you being suicidal
  4. beliefs that are highly unpopular
  5. anything actually illegal you have done.
  6. you being paranoid

If you want to get out of a psych ward you may have to outright lie there are a lot of nasty people in positions of authority and you shouldn't be honest with them if they have any real power over you.

reddit.com/r/Antipsychiatry/comments/evp7ya/i_made_it

Rule 9 Assume that the person you are listening to might know something you don’t
While this is technically true he is still promoting a harmful submissive message where you should listen to what other people (read: him) tells you and not question the individual or his message.
Rule 10 Be precise in your speech
he is clearly not following that himself. Notice how he is given one advice to you while doing the complete opposite himself (rule 10 is the most clear example of this).

What he isn't telling you
13: avoid psychoactive substances.
14: put effort into making sure you become/remain healthy.
15: hide your real identity properly online.
16: tell other people what they want to hear.
17: assume the person you are listening to might be trying to deceive you, be critical.
18: do not trust therapists/psychiatrists, avoid these people*
19: find something meaningful to engage in that isn't all about yourself.

*there are exceptions such as Peter Breggin.
 

Oxblood

Well-known member
#3
You should ask yourself why is Peterson a successful scammer and you are a loser in the scam world.

We (I am using plural because I consider myself a member of this growing Vintologi cult) are small, no money to fund our propaganda. We have no followers (yet). So we have to learn from more successful scammers, and Peterson can teach us something.
 

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#4
The thing with peterson is that he isn't following his own advice, he tells one thing to his followers one thing while often doing the exact opposite.

He isn't even that successful in term of reproduction or living a good life. The issue with him is that he believes too much of his own nonsense and this is why he has made so many bad decisions.

Vintologi is legitimate and this is why it's not too popular, people prefer being fed bullshit and being told this is some truth the government is hiding from them.
 

Oxblood

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#5
You too are not following your advices. For example, where is your large family? Are you working on it?

This is not the point. Most scammers are usually criticized. But there are reasons why they achieve success. Even the most insignificant scammer must be observed.
 

Admin

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#6
Making a female pregnant resulting in childbirth is significantly more difficult than to just get to experience sex.

Even when no contraceptives are used you will usually need multiple tries for successful impregnation and even then she may still not give birth to a living baby, you need to worry about abortion and miscarriage.

A lot of vintologi advice does not apply to everyone, not everyone will be able to have a big family, the biggest obstacle in this is finding willing female(s).

If making females pregnant as male is impossible or very unlikely you should look into medical transition as an option
 

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#7
What he is promoting to males is an extremily masculine strategy where you are assertive, very honest, only focus on yourself.

That doesn't work in the real world. You live in a society where you need to navigate socially and your life is at the hands of other people whether you know it or not. While we have individuals to a large degree you dont actually have the rights you are told you have and thus you need to act accordingly


If you are very masculine (honest, assertive, confrontational) there are many situations where you need to supress that temporarily, this is a skill you will have to learn.

 

Admin

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#8
He tried to kill himself when he tried to follow advice peterson gave him
This is just one of many individuals who ruined thier lives following this grifter

u/PetersonSoldMeBenzos wrote:

after opening up about it in the JP sub, and being met with a lack of any sort of acknowledgement of the propensity the information could have, I decided to post the vague details I felt were important here. Again, as always, the JP sub insisted my friend could not have attempted suicide because of “Jordan Peterson doesn’t spread that message.” I’m leaving out names, locations, time span, exact wording, exact events, and such, just in case anyone else close to it won’t entirely know who and what happened to try to best respect the wishes. But I felt it would be appreciated in this sub more than the JP one.

I had come to my friends house and found a suicide note written, using the language of JP. My friend had been a homebody with depression who wanted to change his life around. We encouraged him as much as we could, to go out, meet people, and such. But he never really did more than watch YouTube and listen to Podcasts. So much so, he’s miss work and started failing classes in college.

Until he found Jordan Peterson. At first we as a friend group were happy for him. He started to clean and get out of his room more. He started making classes and kept his job, and I decided to start reading JP books and do other JP related things with him (that self-help self-authoring thing, let him talk about religious issues). And then he felt he was ready to start dating and meeting new people. Again, we were super happy for him. He felt like he was ready to start throwing parties, meeting people, start getting more responsibility, and doing more with his life. Again, at this time, we didn’t like Jordan Peterson, but if this was the catalyst for my friend to change his life around, whatever. Yay.

And then time for all the events and dates and responsibility. Being vague, a lot of unfortunate and badly planned things happened. Peterson doesn’t teach any of this, but just insists if you are good and honest, it works. My friend retreated again. His depression came back hard. And all the responsibilities he took on were starting to get to him, and as much as he felt he was trying, he wasn’t getting things done, or he just wasn’t making the mark he had promised people he felt he could do. He started heavily leaning on JP at that point. And let me tell you, in 12 Rules and many lectures, the wording says, “If something fails, it is because that person wasn’t truthful and wasn’t genuine. They are corrupted. They are a sin that corrupts.” There’s a couple points in 12 Rules for Life where Peterson quotes Aristotle in saying when life is to a point of nothing but pain, the noblest thing to do is end it. And each rule in 12 Rules hints at, if you fail, you weren’t being honest, and you need to change. The personal accountability can be a hugely devastating thing. But. If someone genuinely feels like they are being honest, and has a stroke of shit luck, or underlying problems that aren’t personal responsibility, these rules, can be devastating. I genuinely wonder how Peterson would think a person of color who gets shot in their own home by the police wasn’t being genuine, authentic, and honest; and didn’t take enough personal accountability. There are just personalities, trauma, and systemic problems that aren’t solved or helped by Peterson. And that’s where my friend was. He couldn’t understand. He was his authentic self. He was telling his truth. He did self-authoring. He found his flaws and worked hard at changing. He took on extra responsibility. He was religious.

His note, basically claimed, he didn’t understand what lies were left in his life. But he must be so inauthentic and broken, that even his attempts at being truthful, taking responsible, and cleaning up his life, and he still was in his room alone. Just imagine that sentiment more JP worded. It’s hard to write about exactly.

But I found him in the bathroom attempting it. No details about it. I’ve visited him several times since, and he was released, but still doesn’t think he is worth it and misses counseling. He goes to class and his job still lets him work there. But genuinely, I’m worried Peterson may come back into his life.

I made the bad decision to share this to the JP sub. Which was met with “Your friend didn’t understand Peterson. Peterson would never want that. Here’s a YouTube video about what actually should have happened. Peterson never says that people are evil or sin.” And I’m just sitting here with 12 Rules for life thinking, this is depression cycles. Saying life is suffering. And it needs sacrifice. Genuinely, he says that. That an ultimate sacrifice is an ultimate gain.

Idk. It just sucks, and there’s a lot of hurting all over because of JP in my circle.

Edit: sorry, forgot my Main point. I just wanted people to have potentially an actually tangible example of someone who almost lost everything because of JP’s armchair advice. A not theoretical example of how he targets certain people, but an example of how his advice can have all the right intentions and look correct, but doesn’t solve any of the actual issues of the world. How 1-dimensional he really is, and how that negatively can impact someone.

proudly_toxic wrote:

I went through a similar thing. I had counselling years back for issues and was told that I just needed to believe in myself, that, if I truly focused and believed in my abilities that I could be/do anything I wanted. At first, like your friend, I was inspired and on fire. Lasted about 2-4 weeks before shit fell apart. I couldn't understand it, it was supposed to work. I came to the conclusion that I must be faulty, that I was inherently defective. Depression and suicide attempts followed.

About ten years after that I was diagnosed with CPTSD and ADD and it was explained to me that that was the cause of my issues I had originally gone to therapy for. These are things I couldn't have changed nor controlled just by 'believing' in myself. Yes, I can work to minimise symptoms but no, I can't will it away.

It concerns me greatly that people are being harmed by JP and I think we'll see a lot more of this unfortunately.
 

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#9
Jordan Peterson became a victim of quack 'medicine'
It started with him getting hooked on benzodiazepines and from there it only got worse

The Canadian psychology professor Jordan Peterson has been described as “the most influential public intellectual in the Western world.” He is an exponent of the Jungian concept of the hero’s journey, in which an ordinary person heeds a call to adventure and goes out into the world to struggle and suffer, only to return with heightened self-knowledge. (He has described himself, without apparent irony, as being “raised and toughened in the frigid wastelands of Northern Alberta.”) His stern ethos of self-help and bootstrapping has made him a darling of the so-called intellectual dark web, and a gateway drug for

Mikhaila has consistently and emphatically claimed that her father is suffering strictly from physical dependence, and not from addiction. And it is important to stress that the two are distinct. Dependence simply means that a person gets withdrawal symptoms when they stop taking a drug. The National Institute on Drug Abuse defines addiction as “compulsive use despite harmful consequences.” It is possible to be dependent on a drug without being addicted to it.

Media reports have claimed that Peterson is suffering from addiction, but have offered no evidence to support the claim. If Peterson were addicted, you’d expect see signs of loss of control over his drug use, which might include buying drugs on the street; “doctor-shopping”; unauthorized dose increases; and drug-related problems with work, family, or the law.

countless budding right-wingers who have stumbled upon one of his lectures on YouTube.

So it was something of a surprise to learn, in early February, that Peterson had spent eight days in a medically induced coma at an unnamed clinic in Russia. Peterson’s daughter Mikhaila, a 28-year-old food blogger, posted a brief but dramatic video claiming that she and her father had traveled to Russia in early January seeking an unorthodox treatment for his physical dependence on the drug clonazepam. Dependency goes against the core tenets of Peterson’s philosophical brand: stoicism, self-reliance, the power of the will over circumstance and environment. “No one gets away with anything, ever, so take responsibility for your own life, he admonished in his bestselling self-help book 12 Rules for Life.

According to Mikhaila, he nearly died several times during his medical ordeal. After weeks in intensive care, he was unable to speak or write and was taking anti-seizure medicine.

The news was met with bafflement by doctors and laypeople alike. What was Peterson doing in a drug-induced coma in Russia? Based on interviews with medical professionals and a close reading of various statements that Mikhaila and Peterson himself have made on podcasts and social media, it is clear that Peterson ended up in Russia after an extended battle to wean himself off clonazepam. And it seems likely that Peterson, a self-proclaimed man of science, succumbed to the lure of a quack treatment—with devastating consequences.

Mikhaila has consistently and emphatically claimed that her father is suffering strictly from physical dependence, and not from addiction. And it is important to stress that the two are distinct. Dependence simply means that a person gets withdrawal symptoms when they stop taking a drug. The National Institute on Drug Abuse defines addiction as “compulsive use despite harmful consequences.” It is possible to be dependent on a drug without being addicted to it.

Media reports have claimed that Peterson is suffering from addiction, but have offered no evidence to support the claim. If Peterson were addicted, you’d expect see signs of loss of control over his drug use, which might include buying drugs on the street; “doctor-shopping”; unauthorized dose increases; and drug-related problems with work, family, or the law.

Peterson’s saga has mostly been covered in conservative news outlets, which have relied almost exclusively on a disjointed narrative put forth by Mikhaila, a nutrition “influencer” with no medical credentials who claims to have cured her idiopathic juvenile arthritis, clinical depression, and a C. difficile infection by eating nothing but meat, salt, and water. Peterson promoted his daughter’s snake oil diet and even embraced the program himself. In July 2018, he told celebrity podcaster Joe Rogan that he’d been eating nothing but beef, salt, and water for two months at his daughter’s suggestion, following a year of eating almost nothing but steak and salad. It’s unclear whether Peterson continued to follow this extreme diet.

Peterson’s health problems first surfaced in September 2019, when his family announced that he had undergone a stint in rehab in upstate New York. According to Mikhaila’s update from Russia, he was prescribed the sedative clonazepam, a benzodiazepine, by his family doctor in 2017 for anxiety stemming from a “severe autoimmune reaction to food.” Peterson’s doctor allegedly increased his dose after Peterson’s wife was diagnosed with kidney cancer in April 2019. Peterson supposedly didn’t realize he’d become dependent on clonazepam until he suffered agonizing withdrawal symptoms when he tried to quit the medication cold turkey during the summer of 2019.

Mikhaila has consistently and emphatically claimed that her father is suffering strictly from physical dependence, and not from addiction. And it is important to stress that the two are distinct. Dependence simply means that a person gets withdrawal symptoms when they stop taking a drug. The National Institute on Drug Abuse defines addiction as “compulsive use despite harmful consequences.” It is possible to be dependent on a drug without being addicted to it.

Media reports have claimed that Peterson is suffering from addiction, but have offered no evidence to support the claim. If Peterson were addicted, you’d expect see signs of loss of control over his drug use, which might include buying drugs on the street; “doctor-shopping”; unauthorized dose increases; and drug-related problems with work, family, or the law.

So far, there is no evidence that Peterson displayed any of the so-called “aberrant behaviors” that define addiction. But again, all we have to go on is reports from his daughter, whose family has a strong financial incentive to spin away any suggestion that the man who made his name engaging in a kind of intellectual Spartan cosplay is hopelessly addicted to a sedative. In fact, Mikhaila has jokingly alluded to how bad an addiction diagnosis would be for her father’s lucrative self-help brand, which purports to rid adherents of weakness through grit and self-sacrifice. “We figured we should let people know [the facts] before some tabloid finds out and publishes [that] Jordan Peterson, ‘self help guru,’ is on meth or something,” Mikhaila said in a video update after Peterson checked himself into rehab in the U.S.

Still, as soon as Peterson’s initial stint in rehab became public in 2019, threads sprang up in Peterson-related forums about whether his fans should think less of him in light of his struggles with benzodiazepines. “He was using a drug to escape the pain of reality, period. Call it whatever you like, but it doesn’t change the facts,” wrote the user KingLudwigII on Reddit. In fact, dependence and addiction are health issues, not character defects, and if you pressed Peterson on that point, he’d probably agree. However, that message is a tough sell to many of Peterson’s fans, who are drawn to his macho image and his personal story of triumph over adversity.

By August or September 2019, Peterson’s health had deteriorated to the point that the family was more worried about him than his cancer-stricken wife, Mikhaila said in an appearance on RT, the Russian propaganda network aimed at audiences outside of Russia.

There are established ways of treating a dependence on benzodiazepines, a class of sedatives—including Klonopin (clonazepam), Valium (diazepam), and Xanax (alprazolam)—used for anxiety, insomnia, and epilepsy. Introduced to the U.S. market in 1960 as an alternative to barbiturates, benzodiazepines can be useful in treating a variety of conditions from panic attacks to muscle spasms. They can be very helpful for short-term and intermittent use, but their benefits tend to wane when they are used every day. They can also cause physical dependence within four weeks. If a person who’s physically dependent on benzodiazepines stops taking the drugs suddenly, they can suffer from withdrawal symptoms including severe anxiety, agitation, and even life-threatening seizures.

Dr. Olivera Bogunovic, the medical director of ambulatory services at Boston’s McLean Hospital and an assistant professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, developed an outpatient program to wean patients off benzodiazepines almost a decade ago. Prior to that, she recalls, patients were being detoxed over four days in the hospital, because that was all insurance would pay for. Four days is a very rapid detox, and it sometimes resulted in the patients having seizures.

The state-of-the-art treatment for benzodiazepine dependence is not some grueling ordeal. Patients aren’t strapped to a hospital bed, white-knuckling it through withdrawal; instead, they are gradually weaned off the drugs outside the hospital over the course of months. In general, doctors try to decrease a patient’s dose by 25 percent every two weeks. Bogunovic reports that this method has a very high success rate: “Up to 80 to 90 percent of patients have successfully completed detox in our clinic,” she told me.

Jordan reportedly unsuccessfully attempted to quit cold turkey at least once on his own, which may have set him up for future problems. “It’s called the kindling effect,” Bogunovic explained. “If you don’t detox properly the first time, every subsequent detox can be more difficult.”

Mikhaila also claims that, in addition to his dependence on clonazepam, Jordan suffered from a paradoxical reaction to the drug, which allegedly made him extremely restless. (A sedative, of course, is meant to have the exact opposite effect.) Bogunovic says that such paradoxical reactions to benzodiazepines occur in about 1–2 percent of patients. The clinical term is akathisia. The patient may shift positions, cross and uncross their legs, rock, or writhe. A severe case of akathisia can make a person completely unable to function.

The picture that emerges is of a man who was trapped: He couldn’t tolerate the medication, and he couldn’t tolerate the withdrawal. Mikhaila told RT that her father was looking for a place that had the guts to detox him “cold turkey,” a place where doctors “aren’t influenced by the pharmaceutical companies.”

Apparently that’s how a man who didn’t want to use drugs traveled thousands of miles to be placed in a drug-induced coma. Mikhaila said that her father was diagnosed with pneumonia “upon arrival” in Russia. If that’s accurate, then his medically induced coma may have had nothing to do with benzodiazepine withdrawal. If pneumonia is so severe that it causes respiratory failure, the patient needs to go on a ventilator simply to breathe. Because it’s so unpleasant to be on a breathing machine in an intensive care unit, patients are usually heavily sedated.

The more alarming possibility is that Peterson was placed in a coma as part of his detox regimen. Mikhaila described her father’s treatment as “an emergency medical benzodiazepine detox, which we were only able to find in Russia.” The term “medical detox” suggests that drugs were an integral part of the program, and the fact that this treatment is only available in Russia implies that it wasn’t one of the more conservative forms of drug-assisted detox available in North America.

Bogunovic says she’s heard of people using medically induced comas to treat benzodiazepine withdrawal, but that it’s extremely rare and not scientifically sound. It’s a little more common to offer this kind of sedation for opioid withdrawal, she says, but there’s no evidence to support the efficacy or safety of sedation detox for opioids, either. The problem, Bogunovic says, is that the patient still has to cope with withdrawal symptoms after they wake up. And the risks of being sedated and placed on a ventilator alone are considerable: Ventilators can cause pneumonia, and prolonged immobility puts patients at risk of blood clots, which can cause strokes.

Another possibility is that Peterson’s doctors didn’t set out to put him in a coma, but that he developed such severe withdrawal symptoms from quitting “cold turkey” that they were forced to do so for his own protection. Sometimes, in cases of severe benzodiazepine withdrawal, the patient becomes so agitated that they have to be sedated; their heart rate and blood pressure can skyrocket, and their extreme agitation can make them a danger to themselves and the medical team.

Seizures are by far the most feared side effect of sudden abstinence from benzos. If someone vomits during a seizure and inhales the vomit, they can stop breathing or develop pneumonia, either of which could have landed Peterson in a coma.

Mikhaila blames Western medicine for her father’s predicament, and not just because Western doctors prescribed the pills. Allegedly, Peterson’s pneumonia was the fault of a North American hospital, too, though she doesn’t say how she knows that. Mikhaila is essentially weaving her own “hero’s journey” into her father’s ordeal, one in which she brought him to a far-flung clinic that had “the guts” to do what Western doctors wouldn’t. It’s a tale that burnishes her brand as a wellness influencer and shoves aside awkward questions about whether the treatment harmed Peterson.
When it comes to recovery, there are no quick fixes. But that doesn’t mean the most arduous option is necessarily the most effective. If Peterson’s sad story has a moral, it’s that a drug problem is neither a dragon to be slain nor a sin to be ashamed of. It’s a mundane health problem that should be treated scientifically, without heroics.
 

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#10
Jordan Peterson falsify claimed that white privilege is just majority privilege
If this was the case whites wouldn't enjoy higher standards of living in most countries where they are the minority. Thus we can conclude that most of the privilege white people enjoy as a group is genetic and thus severe oppression will be required to eliminate the privilege we enjoy as a group.

https://www.lookism.net/threads/brutal-race-pill-for-asains.25401/

If you are born with bad genetics you will die with bad genetics, it's not something that can be fixed.
 
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