Vaccines

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#36
"everyone will get exposed to the virus"
Dr john Campbell made a video going over the shift in opinion from "Herd Immunity" to "everyone will get infected"


I do not think that is correct since as vaccinated get infected their immunity will improve so we might still get to Herd Immunity anyway.
 

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#37
Vaccinated vs unvaccinated (israel study)
Here is a study examining the outcomes of vaccinated vs unvaccinated (control) in israel.

1630521790412.png


Adverse event here (like other studies) does not mean it was caused by covid or the vaccine but they did also estimate the contribution to these from the covid and the protection the pfizer vaccine offers:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2110475?query=featured_home#

1630522190721.png


Issues with this study
This was not a randomized controlled trial so nothing was blinded, this may have lead to difference in reporting for vaccinated vs unvaccinated. The study did not specify how many of each adverse event that was linked to COVID-19 (unless i missed that in some appendix or something).

I also found no mortality data, this (unlike other outcomes) is far harder to fudge since it's generally very easy to tell whether or not someone is dead. Did they omit some bad data her or did they just not bother to study it?

Supplemental appendix

These studies have a habit of putting important data in a supplemental appendix for some reason, let's see if there is some valuable info there:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/suppl/10.1056/NEJMoa2110475/suppl_file/nejmoa2110475_appendix.pdf
 

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#38
Study: pfizer vaccine 42% effective against infection, moderna 76% effective
These figures just keep getting worse. So much for "herd immunity".

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v1.full.pdf

Clearly pushing so hard for vaccinations (like many countries did) was a great mistake, most vaccines are not particularly effective against protecting other people so it's hard to justify mandates or vaccine passports (especially when these vaccines are still to a large extent experimental).

1631108852929.png
 

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#39
Risk of thrombocytopenia and thromboembolism after covid-19 vaccination and SARS-CoV-2 positive testing: self-controlled case series study
Both the AstraZenica and pfizer vaccine showed statistically significant benefits here but also some statistically significant negative health outcomes.

https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1931



Anaphylaxis = severe, potentially life-threatening allergic reaction

CVST = cerebral venous sinus thrombosis

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/cerebral-venous-sinus-thrombosis

https://www.stroke.org/en/about-stroke/types-of-stroke/ischemic-stroke-clots
 

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#40
Studies on myocarditis risk
CDC did release a paper showing the myocarditis risk to be much lower than the number of hospitalizations prevented:

cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-08-30/06-COVID-Rosenblum-508.pdf

The following (not yet peer reviewed) study found a very different result

For boys 12-15 without medical comorbidities receiving their second mRNA vaccination dose, the rate of CAE is 3.7 to 6.1 times higher than their 120-day COVID-19 hospitalization risk as of August 21, 2021 (7-day hospitalizations 1.5/100k population) and 2.6-4.3-fold higher at times of high weekly hospitalization risk (7-day hospitalizations 2.1/100k), such as during January 2021
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.30.21262866v1

One difference of course is that the CDC report looked at all males between 12 and 15 while this study specifically looked at males between 12 and 15 who was healthy. They did not however look at all adverse events:
Symptom search criteria included the words chest pain, myocarditis, pericarditis and myopericarditis to identify children with evidence of cardiac injury. The word troponin was a required element in the laboratory findings. Inclusion criteria were aligned with the CDC working case definition for probable myocarditis. Stratified cardiac adverse event (CAE) rates were reported for age, sex and vaccination dose number.
The following study did find that young males infected with the virus were 6 times more likely to get myocarditis than the ones who got vaccinated:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.23.21260998v1
 

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#41
FDA only approves boosters for 65+ and people of high risk of severe covid
The reasoning for this seems to be that they view the vaccines are effective and therefore they cannot justify boosters for most people, they do not think it's needed. There also isn't much good data in favor of them.
The 16-2 vote against broad use of the booster, which would be given about six months after completion of the two-dose immunization regimen, dealt a setback to Pfizer and complicates the FDA's approach to boosters.

After a brief intermission following the rejection, FDA officials returned to the meeting with a revised booster question. The panel then voted 18-0 in support of the agency authorizing a booster shot of the vaccine for people 65 and older or at high risk of severe COVID-19.
npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/17/1038374005/experts-advising-fda-vote-against-pfizer-covid-booster?t=1632132335097
 

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#42
Surveillance for Adverse Events After COVID-19 mRNA Vaccination
This is another observational trial and like the other observational trials nothing was reported regarding mortality. This data contradicts the Israeli study by instead showing lower incidence of appendicitis in the vaccinated group (only statistically significant benefit observed), this could possibly be due to covid-19 causing appendicitis and the vaccine protecting against that.

1632177780361.png


https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2784015
 

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#43
most people hospitalized/dead from covid are unvaccinated ≠ the vaccine is beneficial
This is often presented as a statistic in favor of covid vaccines but as you should be able to figure out this doesn't actually tell you that people benefit from taking the vaccine in terms of their healthy, you have to look at all adverse events, not just covin-associated adverse events. You also need to analyze each vaccine individually, even if one particular vaccine is beneficial people might still do better taking some other vaccine.

The first obvious issue is that this is not actually what matters. In order to show treatment to be beneficial you have to compare with untrated controls and look at all outcomes that matter, not just some of the outcomes.

The second issue is that there isn't even any clear line between "hospitalized with covid" and "hospitalized due to covid". What if someone has a mild case of covid-19 but then get an unrelated medical issue? in that case had they been vaccinated they would still end up in the hospital but it would not be a covid hospitilization.

This is why there is no alternative to doing proper trials and so far these have not really been done, sample size was way too small in the Randomized Controlled Trials (true for all covid vaccines) and the non-randomized trials isn't super-convincing either
 

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#44
A second look at the Israeli data
Adverse event, number of people observed, in vaccinated group, in unvaccinated group:
Code:
Acute kidney injury         912019    20    45
Anemia                      709267    298   378
Appendicitis                900289    95    66
Arrhythmia                  856152    254   284
Arthritis or arthropathy    731340    64    70
Bell’s palsy                923692    81    59
Cerebrovascular accident    917598    45    55
Deep-vein thrombosis        925380    39    47
Herpes simplex infection    876328    219   205
Herpes zoster infection     888647    283   204
Intracranial hemorrhage     933130    13    30
Lymphadenopathy             823006    660   279
Lymphopenia                 938939    2     7
Myocardial infarction       892785    59    60
Myocarditis                 938812    21    6
Neutropenia                 919291    20    22
Other thrombosis†           932469    12    22
Paresthesia                 827478    552   496
Pericarditis                936197    27    18
Pulmonary embolism          937116    10    17
Seizure                     913091    36    35
Syncope                     858068    326   267
Thrombocytopenia            923123    56    60
Uveitis                     933217    26    20
Vertigo                     773263    433   395
Of these the following were statistically significantly more common in the vaccinated group

Lymphadenopathy
Myocarditis
Herpes zoster infection
Appendicitis

Bell’s palsy was more common in vaccinated but not statistically significant.
 

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#45
Study: myocarditis may have 50% mortality after 5 years
This is very alarming but it's not clear to me if this would actually apply to people who got myocarditis from the vaccines.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK459259/

I have seen severa youtube doctors and others assure us that "myocarditis is treatable" and we have been told that we do not have to worry about it, for some reason i am not at all convinced by this.
 

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#47
Pfizer vaccine trial update
1 more individual ended up dying in the placebo group (15 vs 14) this is not a statistically significant difference

1634807776461.png


https://www.nejm.org/doi/suppl/10.1056/NEJMoa2110345/suppl_file/nejmoa2110345_appendix.pdf

Vaccinated: 1 died out of 131 infected (covid-19)

Unvaccinated: 2 died out of 1034 infected (covid-19)

This was prior to the wider usage of monoclonal antibodies (such as regeneron) so it's likely that the current covid mortality is even lower.

The FDA report, however, revealed a larger number of deaths by all causes in both groups, with 17 deaths among the control group and 21 in the vaccinated cohort.
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/317091?s=09

This is a bit strange, let's take a look at the report

https://www.fda.gov/media/151733/download
From Dose 1 through the March 13, 2021 data cutoff date, there were a total of 38 deaths, 21 in the COMIRNATY group and 17 in the placebo group. None of the deaths were considered related to vaccination.
Of course they cannot actually know that none of these deaths were cased by the vaccine, this is just an educated guess on their part.
 

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#48
Appeals court temporarily halts Biden vaccine mandate for larger businesses
NEW ORLEANS — A federal appeals court on Saturday temporarily halted the Biden administration's vaccine requirement for businesses with 100 or more workers.

The 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals granted an emergency stay of the requirement by the federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration that those workers be vaccinated by Jan. 4 or face mask requirements and weekly tests.
Louisiana Attorney General Jeff Landry said the action stops President Biden "from moving forward with his unlawful overreach."

Related Story: Biden's vaccine rules for 100 million workers are here. These are the details
"The president will not impose medical procedures on the American people without the checks and balances afforded by the constitution," said a statement from Landry, a Republican.

At least 27 states filed lawsuits challenging the rule in several circuits, some of which were made more conservative by the judicial appointments of former President Donald Trump.

The Biden administration has been encouraging widespread vaccinations as the quickest way to end the pandemic that has claimed more than 750,000 lives in the United States.

The administration says it is confident that the requirement, which includes penalties of nearly $14,000 per violation, will withstand legal challenges in part because its safety rules pre-empt state laws.

The 5th Circuit, based in New Orleans, said it was delaying the federal vaccine requirement because of potential "grave statutory and constitutional issues" raised by the plaintiffs. The government must provide an expedited reply to the motion for a permanent injunction Monday, followed by petitioners' reply on Tuesday.

https://text.npr.org/1053234688
 

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#50
the main issue here was actually the credebility or more correctly lack there of from the gov side. with regards to censorship
Governments cannot be trusted with medical decisions, politicians will just pander to their voters/donors, FDA is there to please the politicians (that control the agency).

If a government has a clear agenda such as getting more people vaccinated then you obviously have to be extra critical about their recommendations similar to how you should be critical of a used care salesman trying to sell you a car.
 

Creamer

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#51
wish I had known b4 I took it
it didn't occur to me, and it's not supposed to be my job to do the medical research
but I wish I were a pure blood again.
 

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#52
it's not supposed to be my job to do the medical research
You are the ones who will be most affected by decision (whether or not you take the vaccine).

A lot of governments push really hard for these vaccines even though they are not particularly effective at stopping the spread, this has been general through the pandemic, the less effective the measure the harder it will be pushed.
 

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#53
Non-covid mortality
While the pfizer study didn't find fewer deaths among the vaccinated compared to controls that does not mean these vaccines have not saved a lot of lives, their sample size was rather small so more people in the vaccinated group might be nothing more than a coincidence.

A more recent study did look at deaths in various age groups and found that people over 44 were a lot more likely to die for a cause not linked to covid:

1643884562438.png


https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7043e2.htm

One issue with these observational studies is that the higher mortality among unvaccinated might be due to these people being more willing to take risks with regard to their health. This study did attempt to control for this by only looking at unvaccinated that had recieved a flu-shot, one obvious issue with this is that unhealthy people might be more likely to take that flue-shot so it might instead do the opposite.


One potential explanation for why unvaccinated die more for a cause not linked to covid is that for some died of covid without them being tested positive for it (such as due to flawed test or no test being done in the first place). Another potential explanation is unvaccinated being people who have poor judgement in general and that this causes them to die for other reasons.

A multivariate regression would have been better.
 

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#54
UK date: vaccinated are under 60 are now dying more
This is interesting but is this really due to the vaccine?



covid-datascience.com/post/what-do-uk-data-say-about-real-world-impact-of-vaccines-on-all-cause-deaths

If we look at the under 60 group we see that older people are vaccinated to a much higher degree and old people will die more in general.



One obvious issue with this data is not having data specifically for people who have just received one dose, then if they die from side effects it will not be counted here.
 

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#57
China still hasn't approved any mRNA vaccine
One misconception is that china couldn't get these vaccine, this is false. They had every opportunity to use these but they have refused to approve any of them.

https://fortune.com/2022/01/26/china-covid-vaccine-mrna-homegrown-walvax-reopen-borders/

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/12/13/china/china-western-mrna-vaccine-mic-intl-hnk/index.html

We know that the chinese government is fairly competent and there are good reasons for not approving these mRNA vaccines.

It's very likely that the spike protein (both from mRNA vaccines and covid) is toxic and causes harm to the body. If spike-proteins themselves were not the issue we would have accepted the novavax vaccine to beat placebo but it failed to do that.
 

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#59
is the Chinese jab any good? Or is it loaded with Mercury and other bullshit?
The sinopharm one has the second best data so far after covaxin

I Know that Conspiracy theorists make a ton of click bait garbage but can you debunk or verify that black eyed (Pandemic Baby) thing.

Cause I want to know if I reproduce with a MRNA bitch will my kids come out healthy.
Not really my field but i do not think genetics of offspring will be affected.

Not that you should care about that when impregnating females, just make her pregnant and have fun watching her give birth.
 

oenz

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#60
Not that you should care about that when impregnating females, just make her pregnant and have fun watching her give birth.
I would like to see the Beautiful white kid come out the of portal to this universe aka the slimly vagina.
 

oenz

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#61
The sinopharm one has the second best data so far after covaxin



Not really my field but i do not think genetics of offspring will be affected.

Not that you should care about that when impregnating females, just make her pregnant and have fun watching her give birth.


I would like to see the Life form enter this universe via the Slimy Portal.
 
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