The ideal society

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#1
For the ideal society to be stable and lasting it has to control the entire planet or at least most of the planet. If there are competition between societies you might be forced to implement rather nasty war-time measures just to survive as a society, then you may as well push even harder to put an end to it.

https://vintologi.com/threads/societal-survival-of-the-fittest.979

In order to prevent the overspecialization problem and societal cancer you have to empower a ruling elite which i call the senate to have the highest authority on all matters and you also want these people to actively govern and not just rely on specialists to make decisions for them.
 

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#2
How do we evaluate a society and why should we care?
People are naturally driven towards survival and reproduction, evolution has over time enforced various preferences among humans and people will be naturally driven towards satisfying these given the opportunity. For example people care about their children doing well.

But why should we care about people on average having fun lives?

Well unless you are going to reincarnate on earth there isn't really any reason to care in the first place. While it is very likely that our consciousness has a continuation after death it's not clear how likely you are to end up reincarnating as a human on earth.

https://vintologi.com/threads/the-vintologi-theory-of-consciousness.652/

If you are going to reincarnate however than what matters is the probability of you reincarnating as someone/sometimes multiplied by the average quality of that life and the length of it. That means that it's worth making someones life worth if the quality of life of other people will improve more, for example you can just use people as entertainment such as publicly raping people and having everyone watch that as entertainment or reducing someone to a sex-slave and then having loads of people have fun at his/her expense (you can use people born male for this since you can use hormones to change the sex-characteristics of someone).

You can also have a very unbalanced society with regard to sex/gender since if the quality of life is improved more for one sex than it is reduced for the other via some policy it's worth it. Of course people may on an emotional level care about gender equality but you satisfy that by making people think there is equality, not by actually having equality.
 

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#3
The vintologi power law
The amount of totalitarianism in a society has an equilibrium point. If you restrict the power of the government you end up with lower-level totalitarian control instead 52 53 54

By weakening the central government you may end up with organized crime, parents having totalitarian control over their kids, sects, psychiatry, etc.

Ordinary "checks and balances" only change who has the power, by making the supreme court more powerful you make other branches of the government less powerful. By making it easier to impeach the president you simply empower congress at the expense of the president.

If we allow citizens to instantly remove the rulers from power via a vote we just end up with more mob rule, technical solutions for this are to allow the citizens to call snap elections or by allowing citizens to change their vote at any time and not having periodic elections.

If we go too far when it comes to controlling people (such as sending 50% of the population to jail) it will hurt the economy and make the government less popular. Weaker economy and less technological advancement means it will become more difficult for the government to effectively control people.
 

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#4
Cruel and unusual punishments
By subjecting your citizens to cruel and unusual punishments you will be able to more efficiently control them and thus there will no longer be any need for expensive jails, few if any people will have to be locked up in institutions.

Locking up criminals in jails costs a lot of money and will cause a lot of suffering for the ones locked up. Instead most people committing crimes should be fined but if the individual can't pay or if the crime was serious a more brutal punishment will be given.

Some lawbreakers will be caned in public (up to 1000 times), this can be divided into multiple sessions if the individual cannot take it in one instance.

By having more tools at your disposal as a judge you will better be able to make an individual become a functional member of society, this may include forced feminization in order to drastically reduce their testosterone and allow them to live a better life as a female.

Creative and unusual punishment thus allows people to live better lives and less punishments will be needed to maintain social order.

Giving out these unusual punishments will provide value in the form of entertainment for everyone else, the purpose is humiliation for public amusement and deterrent.
 

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#5
Punishing problematic people
The punishment given will depend on several factors such as gender and physical attractiveness where attractive females and important males are given much more lenient punishment while unattractive males get very brutal punishments.

The harshest punishment a fertile female of high quality can face shall be being reduced to a D3 citizen. Females should in general be given a much more lenient sentence for the same crime.

Subhumans causing problems can end up facing very brutal punishments such as being killed for meat/organs or having to enter into a gladiator tournament where only 1 of 16 can survive (the winner).

We may also want to use some individuals for medical experiments.

People with problematic views can be sent to re-education camps or by reducing them to the property of others (D0 to D5). By changing their environment we can hopefully help them purify their souls and become functional members of our new superior society.
 

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#6
Gladiator games
People we dislike can provide entertainment value in the form of gladiator games. We watching in delight as they fight for their lives, the crowd cheering as another human is beaten to death.

A person we(the ruling elite) dislike will need up to 4 wins to be permitted to live, they will be paired up with other individuals that need the same numbers of wins. You may simply give up and let the other contestant kill you but if both are unwilling to kill they will both get executed. They either die and reincarnate or they survive a fun adventure.

We do not want to kill too many people in these gladiator arenas but if it is less than 25% of the population it is a good thing, the fit will be able to survive in the gladiator arena while the weaklings die(in general, you may be lucky or unlucky).

I am against penitentiaries and executions, instead we should give all people a fair chance to survive and be free. Jails will only be used to hold the contestants before/between the fights. We can of course also have duels to the death in an anarchy but they will not be very common without a ruling elite forcing people to kill each other.

In many countries executions are common where the survival chance is almost zero. A lot of US citizens get killed by trigger-happy cops where you do not even get a trial, here you at least get a fair chance to survive (25% in the case of 2 rounds).

You can construct elimination games in many ways, it does not have to be physical combat, can be board games(such as Fischer random) or letting people of the opposite sex choose after they have stripped naked. You may give people several chances to survive and reserve the deathmatches to the losers.
 

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#7
Using capitalism to maximize the quality of peoples lives
Let's say someone has a kidney that he/she values less than how someone else values that (or a liver that can be transferred) rather than forcefully taking it from that person and given it to someone else we can just let people trade it for money/resources.

For example a male giving up a kidney might want a female as sex-slave and then the female might have to accept sex-slavery in exchange for getting that kidney to survive.

This also works in the case of entertainment, people can be paid to entertain others doing things that are unpleasant/humiliating such as being fucked and spanked in public while restrained.

People could just be punished by fines and then they would be obligated to earn that back which might include doing nasty stuff to earn money, if they fail to pay the money the government requested they would be reduced to property of the government and then the government would try to extract these resources from them in addition to interest. They might remain as property until they die.
 

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#8
Population control and eugenics
If the population keep expanding you will eventually hit a point where there is no longer resources available to keep people alive. We can expect that as we reach the carrying capacity of earth food will become increasingly expensive and there will be an increasingly strong push to destroy the environment in favor of just getting a little bit more food to people.

You could of course also reduce the population by other means such as by making it more difficult for people to reproduce or completely sterilize/kill them.

Short-term relying on people voluntarily having less children would likely work in terms of preventing overpopulation (fertility is below replacement in most western countries despite support for parents) but over time people unwilling to reproduce unless forced by other(s) would diminish as a portion of the population. Evolution would over time enforce pro-natal behavior/traits (can be low intelligence resulting in people failing to use birth control).

While there would no longer be any need for eugenics to produce quick benefits the ruling elite would still have to put effort into at least maintaining the current population quality and ideally make sure the population improves over time even if it's very slow (like natural evolution).
 

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#9
Is there any good way to implement eugenics and population control?
Eventually at some point people be prevented from reproducing, this is unavoidable.

We do not actually need the government to forcefully sterilize anyone for this. We can simply let people have kids and then watch them die such as due to not being able to afford food for their children.

You also introduce artificial danger to people such as forcing people to participate in gladiator games to prevent overpopulation.

Outright human sacrifices and cannibalism are also options.
 

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#10
Focus on space exploration
One goal we can have with breeding of humans is to breed people to send to new planets. This will likely require radical genetic engineering.

Humans naturally desire some important purpose in life and this can be working to advance humanity letting us colonize other planets. This would of course be extremely difficult but even if it has just 1% chance of being successful it should still be done.

We would probably have to resort to radical genetic engineering to establish a presence in the planets we want to colonize. Rather than sending humans there we might have to send seeds there instead and then maybe have human-like individuals made on the planet we want to colonize.
 

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#11
What technology should be allow on earth?
While it may at first seem like advanced technology allow people to live better lives the reality if often very different from that.

http://besser.tsoa.nyu.edu/howard/Anarchism/Unabom/manifesto2.html

With a single strong world government we would have the opportunity to dismantle a lot of things that just make people miserable.

Guns
would be very hard to get, most people would not be allowed to own them. You shouldn't have to worry about dying or getting mamed for life because some idiot pulled the trigger.

We also do not want people to be able to commit anti-government terrorism.

Cameras
it will inevitably result in privacy violations, anything you do in public can be captured and spread all across the internet. People can also use violence and then film as they humiliate someone in front of a camera.

For example you can just pull down the pants of someone and then take a photo.

The internet
While it does allow the exchange of information easily the result has mostly been people getting more and more isolated in echo-chambers while IRL social connections increasingly die out. We probably want to take a lot more control over it at the very least.

For example we need to put effort into smashing online echochamber including sites like reddit. We might also need general anti-cult legislation to prevent for society destructive cults from becoming too large.
 

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#12
Issues with the Unabomber manifesto
While it is very convincing you can spot various issues with it.

It is well known that the rate of clinical depression has been greatly increasing in recent decades
There is zero good evidence for that, what has happened is a gradual loosening of the criteria for depression.
modern society gives them antidepressant drugs. In effect, antidepressants are a means of modifying an individual's internal state in such a way as to enable him to tolerate social conditions that he would otherwise find intolerable.
There is no good evidence that antidepressants are any better than placebo long term.

Education is no longer a simple affair of paddling a kid's behind when he doesn't know his lessons and patting him on the head when he does know them. It is becoming a scientific technique for controlling the child's development. Sylvan Learning Centers, for example, have had great success in motivating children to study, and psychological techniques are also used with more or less success in many conventional schools.
But we have gotten ahead of our story. It is one thing to develop in the laboratory a series of psychological or biological techniques for manipulating human behavior and quite another to integrate these techniques into a functioning social system. The latter problem is the more difficult of the two. For example, while the techniques of educational psychology doubtless work quite well in the "lab schools" where they are developed, it is not necessarily easy to apply them effectively throughout our educational system. We all know what many of our schools are like. The teachers are too busy taking knives and guns away from the kids to subject them to the latest techniques for making them into computer nerds
In reality people who study very technical subjects at schools often do very poorly since technology itself tend to get rid of these jobs and replace them with automated systems (such as computers instead of humans doing calculations).


"Parenting" techniques that are taught to parents are designed to make children accept fundamental values of the system and behave in ways that the system finds desirable. "Mental health" programs, "intervention" techniques, psychotherapy and so forth are ostensibly designed to benefit individuals, but in practice they usually serve as methods for inducing individuals to think and behave as the system requires. (There is no contradiction here; an individual whose attitudes or behavior bring him into conflict with the system is up against a force that is too powerful for him to conquer or escape from, hence he is likely to suffer from stress, frustration, defeat. His path will be much easier if he thinks and behaves as the system requires. In that sense the system is acting for the benefit of the individual when it brainwashes him into conformity.)
That's not correct, political extremists tend to be happier.

https://tsminteractive.com/political-extremists-happier-moderates/
In the long run (say a few centuries from now) it is likely that neither the human race nor any other important organisms will exist as we know them today, because once you start modifying organisms through genetic engineering there is no reason to stop at any particular point, so that the modifications will probably continue until man and other organisms have been utterly transformed.
That's not a bad thing since without genetic engineering we humanity faces certain death in less than 500 000 000 years due warning from the sun eventually making earth inhabitable for humans and most animals.

With genetic engineering we have a shot at establishing ourselves on other planets and continue from there.

from http://besser.tsoa.nyu.edu/howard/Anarchism/Unabom/manifesto.html

In modern industrial society only minimal effort is necessary to satisfy one's physical needs. It is enough to go through a training program to acquire some petty technical skill, then come to work on time and exert the very modest effort needed to hold a job. The only requirements are a moderate amount of intelligence and, most of all, simple OBEDIENCE. If one has those, society takes care of one from cradle to grave. (Yes, there is an underclass that cannot take the physical necessities for granted, but we are speaking here of mainstream society.) Thus it is not surprising that modern society is full of surrogate activities. These include scientific work, athletic achievement, humanitarian work, artistic and literary creation, climbing the corporate ladder, acquisition of money and material goods far beyond the point at which they cease to give any additional physical satisfaction, and social activism when it addresses issues that are not important for the activist personally, as in the case of white activists who work for the rights of nonwhite minorities. These are not always PURE surrogate activities, since for many people they may be motivated in part by needs other than the need to have some goal to pursue. Scientific work may be motivated in part by a drive for prestige, artistic creation by a need to express feelings, militant social activism by hostility. But for most people who pursue them, these activities are in large part surrogate activities. For example, the majority of scientists will probably agree that the "fulfillment" they get from their work is more important than the money and prestige they earn.

This is very much not true. It takes a lot more than minimal effort to satisfy your basic biological drives. Reproducing as a male in particular takes a lot of effort, the biggest hurdle is finding females willing to voluntarily let them impregnate you.

If it wasn't for the welfare state and things like government control over healthcare peoples health and the well-being of their children would instead be in their own hands. People would have to earn enough resources to support themselves and their children, they might have to watch one of their children needlessly die because they couldn't afford the medical treatment needed to save their child, people might starve because they cannot afford food.

He did mention population increase as a bad thing caused by technology but over time that will make it more and more challanging to survive and reproduce since there would be an increasingly brutal struggle for resources.

Thus it is not surprising that modern society is full of surrogate activities. These include scientific work, athletic achievement, humanitarian work, artistic and literary creation, climbing the corporate ladder, acquisition of money and material goods far beyond the point at which they cease to give any additional physical satisfaction
 

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#13
Giving people a sense of purpose in a modern society
A sense of purpose is not neccessarily something people have to find for themselves, it's something we can give to people similar to how dogs are often given specific tasks and this is often predetermined when the dog is born. We can do something like that to humans.

People could be genetically engineered for specific tasks, then they would already have a clear purpose for their lives and they wouldn't spend years trying to find some meaning that really isn't there.

With natural breeding the resulting genetic combination is random except for the fact that you get 50% from your father, 50% of your moder (exactly only in the case of females. the x chromosome is larger than the y chromosome). Because of that people might end up with genetics that are not needed for society and this can obviously create a lot of societal issues.

The popularity of videogames does illustrate that people often very much enjoy words that are tightly controlled by one entity and that are made by humans, humans can be very happy in environment created largely by humans.

Rome.jpg


The more heirarchical the society is the more it would matter to have a good standing in the society and this shouldn't just be getting access to more money, people can also be given special rights most people cannot enjoy.

People who themselves cannot join the ruling elite can still hope that one of their children will be able to do so and if not that maybe one of their grand-children. For example you might be able to make your daughter marry a senator when she is very young (such as 11) and then she will grow up to be at least very close to the ruling elite and it's likely that at least one of her children would join the senate.
 

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#14
Individualism and atomization
For most of human history people lived in small/medium tribes where they were tightly bonded genetically and culturally. Then people had to fight as a team against competing tribes where they losing tribes likely would have their males killed and their females made into sex-slaves.

In modern western societies people are expected to instead make progress as individuals, people individually get promoted to jobs in corporations or political positions. Helping out people close to you is called "nepotism" and viewed as a bad thing since that is very likely to make the system less effective.

It does however seem like people were (at least initially) a lot happier in highly collectivistic societies such as nazi germany and China under Mao, these highly collectivistic systems never worked out particularly well for the subjects however. Hitler lost the second world war and millions of people died due to the disastrous "great leap forward" implemented in china.

Part of the reason why liberalism is prominent is that governments almost all current governments are highly incompetent and cannot be trusted with things like medical decisions. One issue however is that many humans are not in a position to make their own medical decisions in the first place, very young children cannot even communicate what they want and children who can talk often cannot understand the implications of various medical procedures, even full adults often struggle with that including authority figures.

Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Colombia, Canada, Spain, New Zealand have all passed laws allowing active euthenasia, they have taken "your body, your choice" so far that you are now allowed to get help committing suicide, individualism has clearly gone too far.

Many western countries allow females to freely abort children for any reason even if there isn't anything wrong with the child, this while the birthrate is significantly below replacement. Females are allowed to transition to male often making themselves infertile and also making the gender inbalance on the dating market even worse, this is justified by the fact that many of these suffer from gender dysphoria, reducing individual suffering takes priority over the well-being of society as a whole.
 

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#15
Embracing authoritarianism
The solution is obvious, we need a strong and capable government. There should not be any limits when it comes to government power and the ruling elite should be firmly in charge, they will decide what if anything the public will be allowed to vote on, they will select their own successors.

Yes the ruling elite should have unlimited power. If they think that a million females should be raped by government officials a million females should be raped by government officials (regardless of whether or not they actually did anything wrong in terms of breaking any law), if they think you should be used for medical experiments you will be used for medical experiments.

The only limit to their power should be the fact that some things (such as travelling faster than the speed of light) simply isn't possible, they can still decide to try to do something that isn't even possible in the first place but in these cases they will not get their way.

 

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#16
STI eradication
People should be able to enjoy sex with strangers without risking serious infection. The obvious solution is to simply eradicate these diseases and this is very much possible via authoritarianism, you do aggressive testing and restrictions to get rid of these things, it's not even hard.

Of course the punishment for spreading and STD should be very severe. We have to have a zero tolerance policy when it comes to people spreading HIV, etc.
 

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#17
Suicide prevention
People should not be allowed to just kill themselves, if someone is at risk of that they need to be monitored. Monitoring individuals at risk of harming themselves or others does not require depriving them of basic freedoms, they will still be allowed to live their lives, it's just that at least one individual will be watching to make sure they do not do anything stupid.

Of course the ones watching will take some risk to save lives which will give these jobs hero status, many people will want to do that.l
 

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#18
Corporations
The by far most successful form of collectevism is collective ownership over individual corporations.

The issue with publictly traded companies is that then the ones holding the shares (allowing them to vote) will often have nothing to do with the corporation itself. If we instead have the corporation own by people actually working there the shareholders able to vote will be less ignorant and the workers will be more motivated to do a good job.

Having ownership concentrated on a smaller number of people will generally result in more effective governance.

The ideal form of a corporation is arguably a smaller number of people working together to build something great and if successful they will share these profits. People will work as a team and if they do well their entire team will benefit greatly from that.

Tax laws should be written to be favorable towards corporation that are owned by its workers such as having salary paid to shareholders of the company be taxed less.
 

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#19
How to stop people from using addictive drugs
The only effective way to stop this is to physically stop people from using these drugs.

Just trying to go after the drug-dealers is dommed to failure, people badly addictive will then just end up stealing to get money so they can buy the drugs they want. We have to go after the addicts, we forced them through withdrawal and then also monitor them on a regular basis to prevent them from relapsing.
 

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#20
Car free cities
Currently a lot of city space is allocated to cars that pollute and kill a lot of people. We do not need cars in cities. People can travel by other means.


Some people may still need a car for traveling outside any city but in these cases they could just lease a car. People could also have their car parked outside the city or in some underground garage connected to underground car tunnel that can be used for taking them outside the city.

Bullet trains can be used for travelling between cities.
 

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#21
Central bank digital currency
The state shall control the official payment system, people should not have to worry about their savings disappearing because some bank went bankrupt.

The issue with typical savings accounts is that then it's just money the bank owes you backed largely by loans that me default. The current workaround is to provide insurance to savers (the government promising to cover the loss for savers up to some amount), the obvious issue with this system is that then if a bank is mismanaged the government itself might end up having to pay for that which creates a perverse incentive and need for a lot of government regulation of licensed banks, there is also a large unregulated shadow-bank sector which operates largely outside government control but then if they go bankrupt the government will probably not bail them out.

Central bank digital currency does eliminate the need for government deposit insurance, it will basically be digital cash which can be interchanged to real cash. If the goal is to help small savers you can just add an interest capped at some amount such as 1% interest but at most 10000$ per year per citizen.
 

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#22
Why digital currencies have to be centralized to be practical
In order for a digital currency to properly scale for mass-usage it has to be very centralized, this has been proven mathematically.

https://cryptographics.info/cryptographics/blockchain/cap-theorem/

So why is there so much for bitcoin then?

You have to realize the real potential for crypto, it's a very successful successor to the old ponzi scheme, it's decentralized and it actually has some real-world use-cases besides speculation (mostly illegal activities). A lot of people missed out on huge gains not realizing how much potential had as the best get-rich-scheme of all time.
 

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#23
AI safety
It's currently unclear what's actually required to create some super-human general intelligence. Currently the only viable option is mass-breeding of humans hoping to create some genius but that's still very limited, humans are still primates, Apes.

Artificial General intelligence could become extremely powerful and it would also likely be extremely dangerous.

Allowing an AI to send info to the internet for example could end very badly since then it could spread itself via the internet and over time grab more and more power.
 

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#24
Sex and relationships
Humans especially males value sex a lot. We want to create a society where people can have fun sexual experiences.

https://sci-hub.hkvisa.net/10.1016/j.jsxm.2016.08.011

What matters fundamentally is not things like consent but how good lives people have on average. Forcing people to participate without their consent could create a lot of entertainment value for other people, we could use this as an interesting punishment against people who do things we don't like.

We want people to at large be able to enjoy sex from the time they have a desire for it. People shouldn't have to wait years because of laws or inability to attract a partner. People shouldn't remain sex-less until they die because all the people that they were attracted to rejected them.

Teens are typically capable enough to give their consent to sex already at 13.

https://vintologi.com/threads/teen-sex.20/
 

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#25
How to we resolve the sex/gender issues?
Having 2 sexes with different characteristics will naturally lead to a lot of social tension, many people will feel like they are treated unfairly because of their sex. In addition sexual freedom when the the percentages of each sex is similar will likely lead to significant male sexlessness.

Currently the option available is medical transition but that does not actually let people become like a typical member of said sex. You cannot currently get the reproductive capabilities of a sex you weren't born as. Furthermore unless you start your transition early enough you will become stuck with a skeleton of a sex you do not want to be.

While MTF HRT will halt further bone-masculinization it will not revert masculinization of bones that is already taken place usually making it very difficult to pass as a female if born male after the age of 20.

Jaw bones fuse typically between 14-16 in people born female and 17-21 in people born male, but the forehead/browbones and hip bones fuse around 24-25. Thus proper sex-change requires early HRT.

It's likely that there will be better medical options available in the future but maybe we could do something better than this?
 

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#26
Hermophrodism
Males would of course be largely obsolete in a very modern and advanced society so maybe having people mostly be like females physically (smaller, physically weaker, etc) would be better overall?

One radical solution is switching to hermophrodite reproduction letting people naturally be born with both a penis and a vagina capable of reproduction.

https://vintologi.com/threads/hermophrodism.882/
 

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#27
Computers and smart phones
It's probably better if computers are all controlled by the government or specially selected citizens (such as C0 or higher), it's simply too dangerous to allow the masses control over those devices.

There would be public computers available but only the accessories such as screen, mouse and keyboard would be accessible to the public, the actual computer would be looked away somewhere safe and only limited access would be provided.

People will be able to play against each other in public gaming halls such as 5 vs 5 but it will not be something people will be able to do for 6 hours a day.

One potential alternativ is the apple approach of locking down devices to limit the control people have over them, this should work for the masses but would still allow some people to defeat those restrictions probably, the impact of that however should be rather limited since the government would control the internet itself. It would also be restricted such as limited to C2 or higher.
 

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#28
Keeping young males sexually satisfied
It is especially important to satisfy young males of your society sexually since otherwise you can face a lot of societal destabilization. Males with bad genetics should still be kept sexually satisfied even if they are prevented from passing on their genes.

Males under a certain age (such as 18) can be allowed to freely grope at least females who are not already taken by male. This can be females who are into lesbian relationships or females who simply stay single.

We can also have sex-workers who will satisfy males by sucking dick and swallowing. Trans females are especially useful for that since they cannot get pregnant in the first place. If the female is actually fertile and can get impregnated vaginal sex will need to be avoided.

At least females who are not already taken by male will also be forced to wear revealing sexy clothing.

In order to be considered taken by a male you need to be the property of him (D-citizen) or be actively bred by him. non-trans lesbians will need to date fertile trans lesbians to be considered taken.
 
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